《長(zhǎng)城》制作人：好萊塢和中國(guó)如何互相學(xué)習(xí)

The continuing courtship between Hollywood and China reached a new milestone last Friday with the release in China of “The Great Wall,” the much buzzed-about movie directed by Zhang Yimou and backed by Legendary Entertainment, Universal Pictures, Le Vision Pictures and China Film Group. With a budget of more than $150 million, the blockbuster epic, which features Matt Damon and Andy Lau fighting monsters on the iconic Great Wall, is the biggest co-production to date for the United States and China and probably the most expensive movie ever shot exclusively in China.

隨著影片《長(zhǎng)城》上周五在中國(guó)上映，好萊塢和中國(guó)之間的持續(xù)示好達(dá)到一個(gè)新的里程碑。這部由張藝謀導(dǎo)演的備受關(guān)注的影片，由傳奇影業(yè)(Legendary Entertainment)、環(huán)球影業(yè)(Universal Pictures)、樂(lè)視影業(yè)和中國(guó)電影集團(tuán)聯(lián)合出品。這部史詩(shī)巨片預(yù)算超1.5億美元，是迄今為止規(guī)模最大的中美合拍片，或許也是完全在中國(guó)取景的最貴的影片，其中有馬特·達(dá)蒙(Matt Damon)和劉德華在標(biāo)志性的長(zhǎng)城上大戰(zhàn)怪獸的場(chǎng)景。

Along with those attributes come high expectations. Many are looking to see whether the film can help Hollywood further penetrate the fast-growing Chinese film market while fulfilling China’s longstanding ambition to make a global cinematic hit. If it succeeds, industry analysts say this type of big-budget, cross-cultural movie could be a model for future co-productions between China and the United States, the world’s top two film markets.

隨之而來(lái)的是很高的期望。有許多人想知道這部影片是否能幫助好萊塢進(jìn)一步滲透快速發(fā)展的中國(guó)電影市場(chǎng)，同時(shí)實(shí)現(xiàn)中國(guó)長(zhǎng)久以來(lái)制作全球風(fēng)靡影片的抱負(fù)。業(yè)內(nèi)分析人士表示，如果它獲得成功，這種高預(yù)算、跨文化的影片可能會(huì)成為中國(guó)和美國(guó)這兩個(gè)世界上最大的電影市場(chǎng)未來(lái)合作拍片的一種模式。

That will not become clear until after Feb. 17, when the film is released in the United States. In an interview, Peter Loehr, chief executive of Legendary East, the China subsidiary of Legendary Entertainment, and one of the movie’s producers, discussed what Hollywood and China could learn from each other and why he rejected accusations of the film’s “whitewashing” in the casting of Mr. Damon.

這些問(wèn)題要得到答案，還得等到影片于2月17日在美國(guó)上映之后。在下面的采訪中，這部影片的制片人之一、傳奇影業(yè)中國(guó)子公司傳奇東方(Legendary East)的首席執(zhí)行官羅異(Peter Loehr)探討了好萊塢和中國(guó)可以從彼此身上學(xué)些什么，以及他為什么反對(duì)外界指責(zé)這部影片選達(dá)蒙主演是在“洗白”。

How did you get involved in making this film?

你是如何參與到這部電影的制作中來(lái)的?

I got involved about four years ago when I joined Legendary. The movie was about to shoot, and we were looking at the budget and the story. The story seemed pretty cliché and not exactly what we wanted to do, and we weren’t able to hit a budget number that we wanted to hit. So we hit a pause button, and we started to rework the script. Then we showed it to Zhang Yimou. He was the first and the only person we showed it to.

我是在4年前加入傳奇時(shí)參與進(jìn)來(lái)的。當(dāng)時(shí)這部電影即將開(kāi)拍，我們正仔細(xì)考量預(yù)算和故事。故事似乎很老套，和我們想要拍的不太一樣，預(yù)算也無(wú)法達(dá)到我們想要達(dá)到的數(shù)字。因此我們按下了暫停鍵，開(kāi)始修改劇本。然后我們把劇本拿給張藝謀看。他當(dāng)時(shí)是第一個(gè)也是唯一一個(gè)看到我們的劇本的人。

At one point did it become clear that “The Great Wall” was going to be a kind of test for future big-budget Hollywood-China co-productions?

在某個(gè)時(shí)刻，事情是不是變得很清楚，《長(zhǎng)城》將成為好萊塢與中國(guó)以后合拍大預(yù)算影片的某種試金石?

We didn’t set out to do that. It happened along the way. We thought, there’s been a perfect storm of events that allow us to actually make this movie. The Chinese market is now big enough that we can return a big part of the box office on this movie and we can bring in major Chinese partners at significant investments. Before, Chinese investors would say, “Oh, we’ll put in $5 million.” This time our partners are in for 30 percent of this movie. So we thought, “Maybe we can make a real Chinese story and maybe the world is ready for this in a way they weren’t before. Plus Zhang Yimou is amazing, and great actors and talented people want to work with him. Let’s just go for it.”

我們并非從一開(kāi)始就作此打算。它是一路摸索的產(chǎn)物。我們認(rèn)為，由一系列因素構(gòu)成的完美風(fēng)暴，讓我們具有了拍這部電影的現(xiàn)實(shí)條件。中國(guó)市場(chǎng)現(xiàn)在足夠大，因此這部電影能為我們帶來(lái)很高的票房回報(bào)，而且我們可以在進(jìn)行重大投資時(shí)引進(jìn)大手筆的中方合作伙伴。以前，中國(guó)投資者會(huì)說(shuō)，“哦，我們會(huì)投500萬(wàn)美元”。而這一次，我們的合作伙伴分擔(dān)了這部電影30%的投資。于是我們覺(jué)得，“或許我們可以拍一個(gè)真正的中國(guó)故事，或許這個(gè)世界與以前不同，已經(jīng)為此做好了準(zhǔn)備。再加上張藝謀非常了不起，偉大的演員和有天分的人想要跟他合作。”那我們就放手去做吧。

After the first trailer came out, there was a lot of backlash from people including Constance Wu of “Fresh Off the Boat,” who criticized the movie as “whitewashing” for casting a white actor — Mr. Damon — as the main hero.

第一支預(yù)告片出來(lái)后，遭到了很多人的強(qiáng)烈反對(duì)，包括出演過(guò)《初來(lái)乍到》(Fresh Off the Boat)的吳恬敏(Constance Wu)。她指責(zé)這部電影讓一個(gè)白人演員，即達(dá)蒙演主角是在“洗白”。

The casting of the movie was entirely organic. This is the way the screenplay was written. It’s not like that role was written as a Chinese person. It’s a plot point that this guy has to show up and do these things. He drives the plot.

電影的選角和劇本完全統(tǒng)一。劇本就是這么寫(xiě)的。并非劇本里寫(xiě)的這個(gè)角色是中國(guó)人。此人不得不站出來(lái)做這些事情，這是情節(jié)點(diǎn)之一。他推動(dòng)著故事情節(jié)的發(fā)展。

It’s interesting that so far, we haven’t really seen any of the same discussions of race in this movie in the Chinese media. It seems to be a very specifically American issue.

有意思的是，迄今為止我們還沒(méi)真正看到中國(guó)媒體對(duì)影片中的種族問(wèn)題進(jìn)行任何討論。這似乎是一個(gè)非常具有美國(guó)特色的問(wèn)題。

With this movie, Zhang Yimou and I set out to defy every stereotype that you can think of. All the roles you constantly see Chinese actors in are not in this movie. There is no mafia guy, there is no triad guy, there is no prostitute. There is none of that. And there’s no stupid, phony, fake love story happening at the edge of the movie as the world is about to end.

在這部電影中，張藝謀和我有意避開(kāi)你能想到的一切成見(jiàn)。影片中沒(méi)有你看到的華人演員始終在演的那些角色。沒(méi)有黑幫分子、沒(méi)有三合會(huì)成員、沒(méi)有妓女。這些都沒(méi)有。在世界末日即將到來(lái)時(shí)，影片的邊緣也沒(méi)有出現(xiàn)任何愚蠢、虛偽、造作的愛(ài)情故事。

I think when people see the movie they’ll think, “Wow, this is a big step in the right direction, and this is a true collaboration between actors in both countries and they at least have equal footing.”

我想，人們?cè)谟^影時(shí)會(huì)想，“哇，這是朝正確的方向邁出的一大步，這是兩國(guó)演員之間真正的合作，他們至少在地位上是平等的。”

What about the movie do you think will appeal to American moviegoers? 你認(rèn)為影片的哪些方面會(huì)吸引美國(guó)觀眾?

It’s a classic adventure story with a great group of heroes. Certainly there’s never been a movie shot on the Great Wall before, especially one in which you’re fending off monsters. Plus it’s a huge action canvas that works to Zhang Yimou’s strengths. Zhang Yimou was in Los Angeles for postproduction, and he played with the 3-D effects for eight months. So there are things you really haven’t seen before, like smoke coming out of the screen. He took things that he would use in a classic Zhang Yimou art film and melded it into a really commercial format in a really interesting way.

這是一個(gè)典型的冒險(xiǎn)故事，有一群很棒的英雄。當(dāng)然以前從來(lái)沒(méi)有過(guò)以長(zhǎng)城為主題的電影，尤其是抵御怪物的那種。此外，這是一幅巨型動(dòng)作油畫(huà)，是張藝謀的長(zhǎng)項(xiàng)。為了后期制作，張藝謀親自前往洛杉磯，并在3D效果上下了八個(gè)月的功夫。因此，影片有一些你以前真的沒(méi)見(jiàn)過(guò)的東西，比如從屏幕上冒出來(lái)的煙霧。他帶來(lái)了自己會(huì)在典型的張氏文藝片里使用的東西，并用一種真的很有意思的方式讓它融入非常商業(yè)化的影片。

Based on this experience, what do you think American studios need to learn from Chinese studios and vice versa?

基于這些體驗(yàn)，你認(rèn)為美中兩國(guó)的電影制片公司分別需要從對(duì)方身上學(xué)習(xí)什么?

In general the U.S. system of everybody being super independent and each department head having their own little fiefdom and only presenting finished work versus the Chinese system where everyone wants to ask the director every single little detail — I think there’s probably a middle ground to be found somewhere there.

總的來(lái)說(shuō)，美國(guó)的制度是所有人都超級(jí)獨(dú)立，各部門(mén)的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)都有自己負(fù)責(zé)的小領(lǐng)域，只負(fù)責(zé)交出完成以后的作品，而中國(guó)的制度是，每一個(gè)小細(xì)節(jié)所有人都想問(wèn)導(dǎo)演，我覺(jué)得可能可以在兩者之間找到一個(gè)中間地帶。

What about on the more conceptual level?

在和觀念更相關(guān)的層面呢?

I think we need to probably start thinking less about China and how to make a good movie that has Chinese elements. When I worked at C.A.A. [Creative Artists Agency], I saw so many scripts, and everyone had a China idea and said, let’s do a remake of this and a remake of that. At the time, “The Great Wall” was the first project I saw that I thought, “Wow, this makes total sense. That’s a good story. I understand that guy, I actually like that guy, and I understand why the people he meets up with are initially very unwelcoming to him and gradually warm to him as he changes and learns more about himself.”

我覺(jué)得我們可能需要開(kāi)始減少對(duì)中國(guó)，以及如何制作一部有中國(guó)元素的好電影的考慮。在創(chuàng)新藝人經(jīng)紀(jì)公司(Creative Artists Agency，簡(jiǎn)稱(chēng)CAA)工作的時(shí)候，我看到過(guò)太多的劇本，人人都有一個(gè)和中國(guó)有關(guān)的想法，說(shuō)咱們翻拍這個(gè)，翻拍那個(gè)吧。當(dāng)時(shí)，看到《長(zhǎng)城》后我覺(jué)得，“哇，這非常有意義。這是個(gè)好故事。我理解這個(gè)角色，實(shí)際上我喜歡這個(gè)角色。我理解為什么見(jiàn)到他的人最初非常不歡迎他，但在他改變自己，對(duì)自己有了更多的了解后逐漸對(duì)他熱情起來(lái)。”它是我看到后生出這種想法的第一個(gè)項(xiàng)目。

How does the movie stand out from past Hollywood-China co-productions?

這部影片和過(guò)去的好萊塢與中國(guó)的合拍片有何不同?

We feel like this is one of the first true co-productions. It wasn’t coming to China just for finance or for access to the market. It was a story that organically took place here that organically had mixed actors, and it’s something that U.S. studios and Chinese investors sparked to in the same way and invested in accordingly. It’s basically what a co-production is supposed to be. The Chinese side is supposed to be 30 percent, but on a film of this scale, the Chinese side being 30 percent is unheard-of. So it must mean something. They must have really liked it. They must not think it’s whitewashing or pandering or anything like that. So I guess, for me, being able to attract a filmmaker like Zhang Yimou and being able to attract a significant Chinese investment says something about the D.N.A. of this movie.

我們感覺(jué)這是第一批真正的合拍片之一。它不僅僅是為了資金或是為了進(jìn)入這個(gè)市場(chǎng)而來(lái)到中國(guó)。故事本來(lái)就發(fā)生在這里，本來(lái)就有不同國(guó)家的演員。它是美國(guó)電影制作公司和中國(guó)投資者同樣喜歡，并相應(yīng)地進(jìn)行投資的一個(gè)東西。從根本上來(lái)說(shuō)合拍片就應(yīng)該是這樣。中方應(yīng)該占30%，但在這種規(guī)模的電影中，中方占30%的情況聞所未聞。因此，這肯定有一定的含義。他們肯定是真的喜歡它。他們肯定不認(rèn)為這是洗白或迎合或任何類(lèi)似的想法。所以我猜，在我看來(lái)，能夠吸引到像張藝謀這樣的電影制作人，能夠吸引到巨額的中方投資，這就說(shuō)明了這部電影的DNA。